When was a decision reached to actually start again from scratch - to go back to the beginning?
Christopher Nolan: [the studio] had been thinking about it for sometime, thinking about ways to reintroduce the character into cinemas and the point at which I got interested in becoming involved, they didn't seem to have a specific idea of how to do that. They were looking for a fresh approach and it seemed to me that to tell the origin of the story would be pretty fascinating because it's a story that's never been told onscreen and hasn't really even definitively been addressed in any of the comics. It's a story that's always been treated in kind of montage and flashback in the past. We wanted to flesh that out and tell the whole story.
A lot has been made of how tough it is to act in a batsuit, but just how difficult is it to move and act in that suit?
Christian Bale: I think I probably had the easiest time of any actor, apart from Adam West - that looked like a pretty flimsy outfit he had there. But an easier time than any of the others in the feature films. Lindy Hemmings and the other designers came up with the lightest weight batsuit so far, and with the most mobility as well. I don't know if people noticed but, you know, our Batman was actually able to turn his head, which has never been done before. Everyone's always been very robotic. And, yeah, you know, it's hot and it's sweaty and it gives you a headache and everything like that. But. I didn't complain about it; I'm getting to play Batman, you know.
This is the first time that Batman has really been a guest star in his own movie. You know, the villains have always been more charismatic than Batman. That presumably was the attraction?
Christopher Nolan: Well, for me, Batman is the character I'm most interested in the film and I felt that it would be perfectly possible to have interesting and colourful villains who wouldn't overshadow the focus of the film. It wouldn't get in the way of the focus of the film and overshadow Bruce Wayne and Batman himself and I think in my mind I was. I was thinking somewhat of the best of the Bond films where there have been some wonderful villains, criminal masterminds, but they've never got in the way of the focus of the story and I felt we could do something similar here.
Christian Bale: I felt similarly that I'd never actually realised, from seeing the other movies, just how interesting Batman was because I was so fascinated with the villains that, in many ways, it felt like treading water when Batman arrived. And it wasn't until reading the graphic novels - and the first one I read of that, because I'm not a comic book fan, was in 2000 - and that was when I was really surprised at just how interesting the character Batman could be and was not sure why that had never been seen in a feature film.
How hard was it for you to get back to physical fitness again after the extreme weight loss that you endured for The Machinist? Did any of the scenes have to be postponed until you were physically fit and able to do them again?
Christian Bale: I don't believe that we had to postpone anything unless these guys weren't telling me anything, but I think my heart was wondering what the hell was going on. It, you know, it was a great deal of weight that I did have to put on, but it was something necessary for the character. He has no superpowers whatsoever so you have to really believe that he's capable of it, and I think probably I kind of knew that I'd be able to do it. I think probably Chris was worrying far more than me, because we were speaking. I spoke to him one time on the telephone whilst we were doing The Machinist and he did say to me, well, you know, how you looking these days, and it was frankly pathetic. It was 121 pounds and I can't do a single push-up. Mm, maybe not the guy you want to cast as Batman, but we had enough time, but it. it was a pretty arduous journey to get there, but my feeling was that I kind of just managed to get into appropriate shape by the time we started filming.
Because Christian throws himself into this stuff very vigorously, I think you actually over-gained, didn't you?
Christian Bale: Yeah, I went. I went way too big. Yes, certainly there were some Fatman comments made at me when I first arrived on the set, yeah.
Michael, how easy did butling come to you? Did you base the character on anybody you'd known and depended on in your own past?
Michael Caine: My mother used to be a cook during the war, when we were evacuated in rich houses and so there were many, many butlers that we worked with, but I was only a little boy - they were always rather scary figures, but in the back story I made him a soldier as well. The two main things about Alfred is that he's tough and loyal, and the voice is the voice of my first sergeant in the army. I made him an infantry soldier who by nature are tough and loyal.
Did you have any preconceptions about what a comic book movie would be, because for a long time people thought they were the kind of poor relation of Hollywood movies, lots of money spent, but not a lot of character. This film absolutely has a lot of character and a good budget, but I'm just wondering before you went in, did you have any preconceptions about what a comic book movie per se would be?
Christian Bale: I think that we'd seen what a comic book movie could be with the last two Batman movies, and very definitely we were trying to create something completely different and. and I like to think of this as being a. a graphic novel based movie, much more than a comic book, but also more than that. I think Chris took it beyond the realm of the graphic novels even. It's able to be a finely made movie just in itself, you know, quite apart from having to be any fan of comic books whatsoever which, you know, frankly I'm really not, other than Batman because of playing him. I got quite obsessive about researching him in the graphic novels. Other than that I 've never read a single graphic novel.
Morgan Freeman: I didn't have a preconceived notion. I'd noticed that the comic book recreations have been rather different. When Warren Beatty did Dick Tracy, it was very graphic novel type, colourful with sort of outlandish make-up. The characters, Flattop, Pruneface, all those guys looked like themselves in there. Warren Beatty didn't move his face to talk, like Dick Tracy. Then Spiderman, of course, is pure comic book. So it's hard to have a preconceived notion about what the movie would look like.
There are so many great characters of the film played by so many great actors. How is it as a Director having to deal with all of those different personalities, be it Sir Michael Caine or Morgan Freeman or Gary Oldman etc. etc. going all the way through the cast? Do you have to have some kind of a schizophrenic frame of mind to deal with all these people or is it just part and parcel of being a director?
Christopher Nolan: Interesting. [laughs]. For me part of being a director is trying to figure out what an actor you're working with requires from you because I think every actor is different and has unique requirements, really. I think as far as this film goes, it was a very large film with a lot of things going on and the actors would come and - other than Christian who was sort of there the whole time and had to be in everything - people would come and go, you know, and do a few days here and there which was quite nice and refreshing for everybody. Michael would turn up and raise everyone's spirits a little bit and then Morgan would come and it sort of keeps everybody going to have a lot of different personalities coming and going. The thing I've always noticed from great actors - and I've been very fortunate to work with a lot of great actors - is how naturally and easily they accommodate one another's needs. Even though their performing styles are maybe very different and the way you would expect them to approach a scene might be very different, they seem effortlessly to be able to mesh with the other performers and I think that's part of their talent. So, I found it very helpful to have so many great creative allies, really, on the set because the other thing a great actor will do - and we were working with a lot of great actors on this film - is they have an entire life for their character off-screen. They've worked out their character's place in the world of the story as well and they become very, very useful, creative allies for me and make my job a lot easier.
There seems to be an extreme amount of British input in the film that for an American, a film set in the States, it seems to be very, very British. Did that make it more difficult for the American actors to fit in?
Charles Roven (producer): I think it just really creatively serendipitously worked out that way, quite frankly. I don't think there was any conscious effort to cast somebody who was British. I actually didn't even know that Christian was British [laughs] because most of the roles that he's done he didn't have a (British) accent.
Why was the decision made to shoot it in Britain as opposed to shooting it in the States or Canada ?
Christopher Nolan: Well, I think there are a lot of different reasons but from my point of view I'd always talked to the studio about achieving a degree of texture and reality to the film and doing a certain amount of location shooting in an American city and then studio work elsewhere, and the model I'd been looking at, that I first discussed with Warner Brothers, was the 1978 Superman that Richard Donner made, and they did a certain amount of location shooting in New York for that film but everything else was done over here at Pinewood Studios. So, we created a model of the idea of shooting at Shepperton Studios and certain London locations and then going to an American city which turned out to be Chicago, which is a city I knew from having lived in as a kid, and that was sort of for me the, the jumping-off point. I was looking back to a great era of blockbuster filmmaking from the late 70s where I think Hollywood films were doing some really marvellous escapist entertainment on a grand scale, and all of those films were done over here. You know , Raiders of the Lost Ark , the first Star Wars , Superman . So, I think for me it was a fairly natural thing to, to just look at, at that model of doing things.
Charles Roven: Also, there's a great history here in England of the craftsmanship in the set-building and set design department - painters, plasterers, mould-makers and all that. There's a history that runs a long time. People who work in this business, the family have been doing that for years and years and years. Unlike in the States, they just kind of show up and learn how to do it and do it. These people are doing it for a different reason, because their grandfather did it, and they take a lot more pride in that sort of work. So, any set kind of thing is, is, it's really done very, very well here.
Batman, I suppose, is the ultimate comic. the ultimate big hero. Can I ask the cast who were or are the heroes in your lives - fact or fiction?
Michael Caine: Me! Anyway, when I was six my father was a soldier and went away to war so he was my big hero. I thought he was the greatest thing.
Katie Holmes: I would say that my parents are real heroes.
Morgan Freeman: my step dad.
Christopher, you've stated on several occasions that you wanted to ground this film in a more realistic look. Now, we're talking about a guy who disguises as a bat to fight terrorism. The main part of the story isn't very realistic.
Christopher Nolan : To me, to say the story is just a comic book is to sort of miss the whole point really. But, excepting that point, and say the story is just a comic book, when you talk about realism in films, you're talking about issues of texture and look as much as anything more substantial. For me, really, the idea of grounding the film on reality is about making the audience believe in the events of the story more and I think that the more people are invested in the story, both in terms of character and in terms of the actual events and the physicality of what's going on, if those things can be believed in, I think the narrative effects of the story are amplified. So, to me, it's all really about creating the most involving experience possible.
Christopher, why did you choose Katie and Christian? What makes them different to other young actors? And, for them, what was it like to act with such people as Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman?
Christopher Nolan: I chose Christian to play Batman based on the idea that in trying to create a realistic version of the story you need an actor like Christian who has sufficient intensity and focus in his eyes to make you believe in the idea that somebody without superpowers - and Bruce Wayne has no superpowers - could through sheer force of will change himself into a superhero, and I think Christian from his other performances and then meeting him in person, it was very clear to me that he has that, the ability to project that kind of intensity and that's why I asked him to do the role.
What I was looking for, for the character of Rachel, was somebody who would be a constant reminder to Bruce Wayne of the life that has been denied him and so I needed somebody, I think, with tremendous warmth and great emotional appeal, but also Katie has a maturity beyond her years, I think, that comes across in the film and is essential to the idea that Rachel is something of a moral conscience for Bruce, and that was why I asked Katie to play Rachel.
Christian Bale: It was fantastic getting to work with Michael, and Morgan, and Gary and with everybody involved in this movie. It was a wonderful thing to see that this calibre of actor was interested in the movie and showed a great recognition that here we had a good filmmaker who knew they could trust and who was going to be making an original and smart movie, and also that this was a great story, which I think is really essential to remember here, because that gets forgotten so much in large movies with lots of special effects and explosions and everything, you know, that often storyline goes out of the window. I think, with Chris, that could never happen at all. And working with people such as these wonderful actors just makes it so much easier, because it just happens, it flows; you can feel when things are right, you know.
Katie Holmes: For me it was just such a privilege to be a part of this cast and it was such a learning experience. Like Christian said, it's so easy when you're working with just such wonderful actors and you know, I learned so much and Michael made me laugh all day and it was. it was just a privilege.
Michael Caine: These young actors are marvellous and it's great because my own reaction is, if I work with a bad actor, I immediately become worse than he is [laughs] because I can't do it, you know. And Christian and Katie are both wonderful at what they do, and they are both extremely experienced as well and, in actual fact, it was a privilege to work with both of you too.
Katie Holmes: Thank you.
Christian Bale: Thank you, Michael.
Christian, will you be along for the sequel and where do you see the character progressing beyond the parameters of this film?
Christian Bale: I could sit here and toy about it and whether I was going to be back for the sequel . I'm signed up for the next one. Whether anybody else is going to be back for it is a different matter and that's what I keep asking them [laughs] but it is certainly something that I'm more than happy to be back for if people embrace this movie and enjoy the style, the vein in which Chris has made it. If they enjoy my portrayal of Batman, then very much I'd like to reprise the character and I think it's kind of limitless with this superhero, unlike others, because he is so contradictory, he is so complex, and he has so many demons and issues. I think that there are many things that can be done further and, you know, there would be no point in making a sequel if there was not going to be anything new seen. I don't think it would make any sense to suddenly return to what we've seen in the past where suddenly Batman is sidelined and the villains are the interesting ones again. You know, we've established that Batman is just as interesting and, in my mind, a more interesting character than the majority of villains and so I would hope that that would continue.
Michael Caine: I would (be happy to return for a second movie). Yesterday a guy told me about . I want to put this to Chris because he'll be writing the new script . A guy told me that in one of the comics Bruce Wayne dresses up Alfred as Batman to act as a decoy and I think Alfred dressed as Batman will be one of the funniest things ever! Will you bear that in mind, Christopher, if you write the script?
Christopher Nolan: Absolutely.
Michael Caine: I just wanted to get that in.
Katie, Dawson's Creek brought you one level of fame and obviously a movie as big as this is going to give you a greater degree of interest and acclaim as an actress. What are your ambitions now and you see television as a stepping stone to movies, or would you ever consider doing another TV show?
Katie Holmes: Well, I think that Dawson's Creek was a definite stepping stone and a huge opportunity, and one that I look back on very fondly. I am excited to be a part of this movie and the size of it and, and the opportunity to be in such a movie. In the future I. I don't know. I'm excited to do more movies. I like playing a lot of different characters but I'm open to all sorts of mediums.
Might you go back to television?
Katie Holmes: Perhaps, if the right thing came along. Sure.
Your character, Rachel, helps Bruce Wayne find his social conscience, moral conscience. Were there any aspects of your upbringing or childhood that you found helpful to draw on to give conviction to this role?
Katie Holmes: It was really exciting and fun to play an Assistant DA. I'm the daughter of an attorney and the sister of one. I guess whenever you're creating a character, subconsciously there are things that you grew up with or parts of your personality that you put into it. So, yes, a little bit.
Christopher, you mentioned that the Donner version of Superman is a model in terms of your shooting plan. I wonder if that was also a model in terms of the casting because like that film you've got great actors, all the way down to the smallest part.
Christopher Nolan: Yeah, very much. I actually spoke specifically to the studio about coming up with what we talked about as an epic cast. We wanted Batman to have an epic treatment and, I think other than, you know, big sets and big explosions and all that kind of stuff, what really makes a film have that marvellous scale is having a wonderful cast of the finest actors and recognisable faces playing even some of the smallest roles, so that there's a life off screen for all of these characters and there's a scope to the story, and in Superman they had Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman, they had Glenn Ford and it was an extraordinary ensemble and that was very much what we were aspiring to. So, we, we asked, you know, we sort of dared to ask some of the finest actors to take on these roles and I was able to put together, really, a dream cast and I like to think we've actually almost supassed that ensemble which is kind of a fun thing and no less, I think, than Batman deserves.
Christopher, this instalment of the Batman franchise represents a complete departure from your previous films, Following and Memento. What comes next for you? Might you be returning to smaller films or can we anticipate more blockbusters?
Christopher Nolan: I really haven't been able to focus on what I'll be doing next yet because, frankly, the release of this film is very overwhelming. It's a much larger film than I've ever done before. So this is a very new process to me. I think in the future I'll be interested in doing all sorts of films, really. I've enjoyed making this film and a film on this scale, so I would absolutely be open to it again but at the same time I have various projects, with different sizes of story, if you like.
Christian, bearing in mind your regime to get into the required physical shape for Batman but before that The Machinist, were you worried about your health and how far would you go for a role?
Christian Bale: I had a fair amount of time to get ready for that movie ( The Machinist) because nobody wanted to give us any money for it, so I had a lot of time for preparation just in the hope that we would eventually get the money. And, you know, it's not very interesting really, how somebody diets, you know? [laughs] You just don't eat very much! I had one time that I did another movie called Velvet Goldmine in which we had to lose a certain amount of weight and I was running a lot and doing that, and my mom looked at me and said, well, this was the glam rock era, wasn't it, you know, how do you think they lost weight? They weren't out running, they were just doing a lot of drugs. [laughs] Why don't you do it that way instead? [more laughter] But how far would I be willing to go for a movie? I. I. I have to say that I do look back on The Machinist and I'm very proud of it and I. and I. I very much like the movie. It's absolutely one of my favourites, but I can look back now and see that I was crazy, but I certainly didn't feel that at the time. You know, with each and every project you become obsessive about it and. however, obviously nothing is worth doing permanent damage to yourself, although the idea can sometimes be kind of tempting.
In the last sequence of the film there's a hint that there'll be a next film with the Joker. Does that mean that you are really intending to make a remake of the film that was done, what was it, 15 years ago with Jack Nicholson?
Christopher Nolan: With respect, I think you're probably over-thinking it a little bit. I mean, the truth is the ending of the film is intended to end this film and the appearance of that device is very much intended as a dramatic effect for Batman Begins and for the end of it. As far as where sequels might go from here, I think that the tone of the film is very, very different to previous films and so it doesn't stand as either a sequel or a prequel, I think to any of the films that have come before. I think it is a separate thing. What that means to me is that as far as what might be addressed in future films, if they were to be made is, just as the Batmobile, the Batcave, Batman himself, as these things have all been reinterpreted in a fresh way, that applies to the Joker, any other villains, any other things really, because this film really is a different tone to the previous films and so those elements can be reinterpreted, I think.
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